this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2026
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Showerthoughts

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I mean with things like sex trafficking, labor trafficking, etc. IMO it should be called slavery, and those affected need to be rescued from slavery.

A pimp enslaves people

The Tate Brothers (allegedly) enslaved people.

IMO, referring to sex/labor trafficking to slavery will show it just how evil it actually is.

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[–] yesman@lemmy.world 12 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Trying to compare forced-labor and human trafficking to chattel slavery obscures and excuses the institution of slavery in the Americas.

Slavery apologists use these arguments. "Slavery is no worse than prison." "Slavery still happens, and to white people".

Their are some key differences, I'll point out three.

  1. no matter how depraved and cruel the conditions of a trafficked person are, they don't expect the same fate to befall their children and grandchildren.

  2. Human trafficking is illegal and rather looked-down-upon. Chattel slavery was considered normal, routine, necessary, and good throughout the society where it occurred.

  3. Human trafficking victims are legally people with rights recognized by the legal system; their abusers must hide their activities and fear punishment.

[–] SippyCup@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago

American slavery was exceptionally evil as far as forms of slavery go. There are other ways to enslave a person without legally owning their body. The modern form of legal American slavery, forced work through incarceration, is objectively still slavery, and slightly less evil than the chattel slavery of the past.

All slavery is inexcusable. All slavery is evil. Not all slavery is chattel slavery.

[–] dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

No one is comparing it to chattel slavery though. Chattel slavery isn't the only kind of slavery. Slavery is slavery, chattel or otherwise. Chattel slavery is slavery, human trafficking is slavery.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago

Slavery as a spectrum is a very odd argument to have.

But im pretty sure slavery has been around since shortly after opposable thumbs.

Tribes/raiders fought and took slaves/hostages/wives.

Intercontinental shipping was a new addition.

As for the generational fate of slaves ... the Old Testament of the Bible has some talk of that.

American slavery was dehumanizing and violent. Most slavery would seem to be.

Spectrum wise? Not sure where it falls in the all time world wide list.

E.g. Rome probably better for slaves, Belgian Congo certainly worse.

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 6 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

"A pimp enslaves people"

I'm not so sure that is always the case. A sex worker can find someone who ensures their safety and pay them to do so. They could also help find clients for them. At no point does the definition of pimp require the person to force the sex worker to do anything.

[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 hours ago

A sex worker can find someone who ensures their safety and pay them to do so

That's not a pimp, that's a bodyguard.

[–] CaptainMan251@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I guess I got A Pimp Named Slickback in my mind where he hits the women and treats them as objects, "What woman sir, this here's a ho"

I'm all the protection of sex workers, as long as they have total freedom from such things. If a pimp is providing safety - actual safety, not gang type safety - then I'm all for it.

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

How did he become a household name lol

[–] CaptainMan251@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Boondocks was an amazing series lolol

[–] melisdrawing@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 5 hours ago

Seriously, haven't watched it in years. Instantly heard him in my head.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Wait... That means drug trafficking is... gasp Those poor drugs!

[–] CaptainMan251@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)
[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

i see you're replying to the joke comments but ignoring the ones posted many hours earlier which helpfully explain what is wrong with the premise of your post (eg, this and this and this).

[–] CaptainMan251@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

Because there is nothing to say. I've been up voting them because I am learning, not arguing.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

It's a separate charge, with a distinct meaning, but yes it's usually used because people are afraid to call it slavery. Human trafficking also includes coyotes (people who clients hire to smuggle them across borders).

The Tates (allegedly but blatantly) trafficked people for the purpose of enslavement.

The more I think about this the more I think we need to bring back calling a slaver a slaver. Not just for the blunt acknowledgement, but also for the distinctions between someone operating an unlicensed brothel where the workers are free to leave vs one where they aren't, or between a farmer who hires undocumented labor without threatening deportation vs one who will call immigration enforcement when a laborer demands safe working conditions or leaves for a competitor, or between a coyote who leaves you once you're in and a trafficker who keeps your passport.

[–] whereitsat@lemmy.zip 1 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

how is a pimp different than any other capitalist?

how come when it comes to the issue of sex everyone all of a sudden takes offense to someone taking a cut off the top?

aren't car dealers pimps? aren't they just car traffickers? isn't mcdonalds a meat trafficker?

another question: why are women so feeble that a dude can show up at their door in a fur coat and a fedora and be like 'you're gonna fuck random dudes and i'm gonna take all the money' and they're like 'ok.'

nowhere in culture do we consider this OK behavior so there's no excuse for it. when men are down and out they suck down steel reserves and live in the park like normal people.

we need to talk about this.

[–] magic_smoke@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Well for one, we don't have to worry about a car-pimp coercing his automobiles into service as they're not sentient beings.

[–] Saledovil@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 hours ago

A pimp is effectively, a manager for sex workers. They handle security and advertisement, and in return get a cut of the earnings.

Car dealers are salespeople.

[–] IWW4@lemmy.zip 4 points 13 hours ago

It is an intentional rebranding.

Why because the word slaves invokes all types of racism and therefore it can only happen to those people.. You know those people that aren’t me…

[–] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 20 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Human trafficking is the trading of slaves. It's just a subset of what goes on around slavery.

You have to remember, in the US slavery isn't really illegal, it's just illegal to do privately. The state can, and does, still sentence people to slave labor. So the reason they refer to trafficking is that it's the illegal part of the slavery.

[–] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 4 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

Human trafficking is the trading of slaves

Then why aren't we calling it slave trading?

[–] freeman@feddit.org 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

not every trafficked human is a slave!

a refugee may pay a human trafficker to be smuggeled over the border to another nation

a rougue parent may kidnap a child from the other parent and traffick it away, the child may even approve btw

so these example show my point I think

[–] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

not every trafficked human is a slave!

Then not every trafficker is criminal. So why is human trafficking considered a bad thing in itself? From your own post: Slavery is bad. Abductions are bad. But trafficking alone isn't.

[–] CaptainMan251@lemmy.world 0 points 6 hours ago

Slave trading at that point.

[–] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

What do you call transporting groups of people for money, when the only restraint is that the state doesn't want those people where you are taking them?

[–] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

What do you call transporting groups of people for money

Against their will or not?

[–] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)
[–] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Not both. There is a massive moral difference between these two cases.

[–] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Legal and moral only rarely overlap, and usually by accident.

[–] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 1 points 14 minutes ago

Legal and moral only rarely overlap

To the contrary. Most of legal framework is built on top of moral one

[–] woop_woop@lemmy.world 68 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Not really, words have meaning

human trafficking: noun

A criminal activity in which people are recruited, harboured, transported, bought, or kidnapped to serve an exploitative purpose, such as sexual slavery, forced labor, or child soldiery.

slavery: noun

  1. The condition in which one person is owned as property by another and is under the owner's control, especially in involuntary servitude.
  2. The practice of owning slaves.
  3. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.
[–] TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip 3 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

Does this mean that human trafficking is always illegal, whereas slavery may or may not be illegal depending on which century and country we’re talking about?

[–] iglou@programming.dev 4 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

No, human trafficking was very much legal when slavery was the norm. Not all human trafficking, but the one that specifically was about trafficking slaves.

[–] TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Just recently looked it up
Trafficking = the act of buying or selling usually illegal goods
Source

I guess you’re using that loophole created by the word “usually”. Even though trafficking is usually illegal by definition, it doesn’t always have to be. Building upon that, you can actually use that word for legal activities too, even though most people will misunderstand you as they are automatically thinking of illegal activities.

[–] woop_woop@lemmy.world 6 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

Well, by definition, to traffick something is to illegally buy or sell something.

Buying, selling, and owning people has not always been illegal, so it's more that humans couldn't be trafficked, depending on if it was allowed.

[–] TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip 4 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Oh, that’s a good point.

This means that if there’s a restriction on something such as beer and cigarettes, you can legally trade them as long as you follow the rules. That wouldn’t be trafficking.

However, if you’re trying to cross the border with an absurd quantity of cigarettes hidden inside the chassis of your lorry, that could be considered cigarette trafficking.

If you hide heroin in there instead, it’s always drug trafficking, no matter what.

On the other hand, if you’re working for the East India Company and you’re shipping opium to China in the 1800s, it’s perfectly legal according to the Brits. The Chinese would have probably called that drug trafficking though.

[–] freeman@feddit.org 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

non english native here wouldnt the trafficking of beer, cigarrettes and drugs over a border be smuggeling as well? and if so, could one smuggel a person as well?

[–] woop_woop@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Yeah, smuggling is moving the illegal goods. Trafficking is buying or selling illegal goods.

A lot of times, they're done together by the same person, but they can also be separately by different people.

I buy some heroin, I'm trafficking. I give it to you to take to my buddy across the border, you're smuggling. He takes it from you and sells it to others, he's trafficking.

And if the goods being illegally moved are people, then they are indeed smuggling people. That's what mules do.

[–] woop_woop@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

Yep! So there is definitely a very real difference between the concept of slavery and human trafficking. They often go hand in hand, but they're distinct processes.

To have even more fun, there's also smuggling, which is moving the goods illegally, and that is different than the buying and selling, and that is different than owning.

[–] woop_woop@lemmy.world 49 points 1 day ago (2 children)

If you want a concrete example of the difference, let's say I kidnap someone and keep them as a slave. That's simply me enslaving someone.

Now let's say I kidnap someone and sell them to someone else who keeps them as a slave. What have I done? I've trafficked a human.

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[–] Carl@anarchist.nexus 17 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

Yeah, human trafficking leads to slavery, actively supports slavery, funnels slaves to slave holders, etc… But trafficking is just that. Moving something (in this case, a human) from A to B.

Saying they’re the same thing is sort of like saying that making meth and smoking meth are the same thing. They each can’t realistically exist on a mass scale without the other, but they’re not the same thing.

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[–] isleepinahammock@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 21 hours ago (5 children)

The most egregious use of this is for entities people otherwise have some respect for. People bristle when I mention that California sends slaves to fight its forest fires.

Historians today have no problem recognizing slavery in historical cultures. They'll have no problem stating that ancient cultures practiced slavery as a form of punishment, where you could be sentenced to slavery for a crime. But that never transfers to the present day. People get rather offended if you say California uses slave labor. They prefer terms like involuntary or forced labor.

But make no mistake, California sends slaves to fight forest fires.

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