this post was submitted on 24 May 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] Irelephant@lemm.ee 1 points 17 hours ago

I check if a user agent has gptbot, and if it does I 302 it to web.sp.am.

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 422 points 5 days ago (5 children)

Funny that they’re calling them AI haters when they’re specifically poisoning AI that ignores the do not enter sign. FAFO.

[–] caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 48 points 5 days ago (1 children)

First Albatross, First Out

[–] Naich@lemmings.world 21 points 5 days ago

Fluffy Animal's Fecal Orifice.

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[–] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 13 points 3 days ago (1 children)

When I was a kid I thought computers would be useful.

[–] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago

They are. Its important to remember that in a capitalist society what is useful and efficient is not the same as profitable.

[–] passepartout@feddit.org 263 points 5 days ago

AI is the "most aggressive" example of "technologies that are not done 'for us' but 'to us.'"

Well said.

[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 202 points 5 days ago (6 children)

Deployment of Nepenthes and also Anubis (both described as "the nuclear option") are not hate. It's self-defense against pure selfish evil, projects are being sucked dry and some like ScummVM could only freakin' survive thanks to these tools.

Those AI companies and data scrapers/broker companies shall perish, and whoever wrote this headline at arstechnica shall step on Lego each morning for the next 6 months.

[–] faythofdragons@slrpnk.net 50 points 5 days ago

Feels good to be on an instance with Anubis

one of the united Nations websites deployed Anubis

[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 25 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Do you have a link to a story of what happened to ScummVM? I love that project and I’d be really upset if it was lost!

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[–] RedSnt@feddit.dk 153 points 5 days ago (15 children)

It's so sad we're burning coal and oil to generate heat and electricity for dumb shit like this.

[–] rdri@lemmy.world 27 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Wait till you realize this project's purpose IS to force AI to waste even more resources.

[–] kuhli@lemm.ee 89 points 5 days ago (3 children)

I mean, the long term goal would be to discourage ai companies from engaging in this behavior by making it useless

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[–] arc@lemm.ee 15 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I've suggested things like this before. Scrapers grab data to train their models. So feed them poison.

Things like counter factual information, distorted images / audio, mislabeled images, outright falsehoods, false quotations, booby traps (that you can test for after the fact), fake names, fake data, non sequiturs, slanderous statements about people and brands etc.. And choose esoteric subjects to amplify the damage caused to the AI.

You could even have one AI generate the garbage that another ingests and shit out some new links every night until there is an entire corpus of trash for any scraper willing to take it all in. You can then try querying AIs about some of the booby traps and see if it elicits a response - then you could even sue the company stealing content or publicly shame them.

[–] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Kind of reminds me of paper towns in map making.

[–] antihumanitarian@lemmy.world 37 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Some details. One of the major players doing the tar pit strategy is Cloudflare. They're a giant in networking and infrastructure, and they use AI (more traditional, nit LLMs) ubiquitously to detect bots. So it is an arms race, but one where both sides have massive incentives.

Making nonsense is indeed detectable, but that misunderstands the purpose: economics. Scraping bots are used because they're a cheap way to get training data. If you make a non zero portion of training data poisonous you'd have to spend increasingly many resources to filter it out. The better the nonsense, the harder to detect. Cloudflare is known it use small LLMs to generate the nonsense, hence requiring systems at least that complex to differentiate it.

So in short the tar pit with garbage data actually decreases the average value of scraped data for bots that ignore do not scrape instructions.

[–] fossilesque@mander.xyz 13 points 4 days ago

The fact the internet runs on lava lamps makes me so happy.

[–] Zacryon@feddit.org 61 points 5 days ago (7 children)

I suppose this will become an arms race, just like with ad-blockers and ad-blocker detection/circumvention measures.
There will be solutions for scraper-blockers/traps. Then those become more sophisticated. Then the scrapers become better again and so on.

I don't really see an end to this madness. Such a huge waste of resources.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 24 points 5 days ago

there is an end: you legislate it out of existence. unfortunately the US politicians instead are trying to outlaw any regulations regarding AI instead. I'm sure it's not about the money.

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[–] Vari@lemm.ee 77 points 5 days ago (3 children)

I’m so happy to see that ai poison is a thing

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[–] stm@lemmy.dbzer0.com 36 points 4 days ago

Such a stupid title, great software!

[–] heyWhatsay@slrpnk.net 98 points 5 days ago (8 children)

This might explain why newer AI models are going nuts. Good jorb 👍

[–] pennomi@lemmy.world 29 points 5 days ago

It absolutely doesn’t. The only model that has “gone nuts” is Grok, and that’s because of malicious code pushed specifically for the purpose of spreading propaganda.

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[–] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 84 points 5 days ago (2 children)
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[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 75 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Nice ..... I look forward to the next generation of AI counter counter measures that will make the internet an even more unbearable mess in order to funnel as much money and control to a small set of idiots that think they can become masters of the universe and own every single penny on the planet.

[–] IndiBrony@lemmy.world 46 points 5 days ago (30 children)

All the while as we roast to death because all of this will take more resources than the entire energy output of a medium sized country.

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[–] essteeyou@lemmy.world 47 points 5 days ago (4 children)

This is surely trivial to detect. If the number of pages on the site is greater than some insanely high number then just drop all data from that site from the training data.

It's not like I can afford to compete with OpenAI on bandwidth, and they're burning through money with no cares already.

[–] bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net 27 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Yeah sure, but when do you stop gathering regularly constructed data, when your goal is to grab as much as possible?

Markov chains are an amazingly simple way to generate data like this, and a little bit of stacked logic it's going to be indistinguishable from real large data sets.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 23 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Imagine the staff meeting:

You: we didn't gather any data because it was poisoned

Corposhill: we collected 120TB only from harry-potter-fantasy-club.il !!

Boss: hmm who am I going to keep...

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[–] Wilco@lemm.ee 50 points 5 days ago (18 children)

Could you imagine a world where word of mouth became the norm again? Your friends would tell you about websites, and those sites would never show on search results because crawlers get stuck.

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[–] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 39 points 5 days ago (1 children)

"Markov Babble" would make a great band name

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[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 22 points 4 days ago (11 children)

Btw, how about limiting clicks per second/minute, against distributed scraping? A user who clicks more than 3 links per second is not a person. Neither, if they do 50 in a minute. And if they are then blocked and switch to the next, it's still limited in bandwith they can occupy.

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[–] Novocirab@feddit.org 14 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

There should be a federated system for blocking IP ranges that other server operators within a chain of trust have already identified as belonging to crawlers. A bit like fediseer.com, but possibly more decentralized.

(Here's another advantage of Markov chain maze generators like Nepenthes: Even when crawlers recognize that they have been served garbage and they delete it, one still has obtained highly reliable evidence that the requesting IPs are crawlers.)

Also, whenever one is only partially confident in a classification of an IP range as a crawler, instead of blocking it outright one can serve proof-of-works tasks (à la Anubis) with a complexity proportional to that confidence. This could also be useful in order to keep crawlers somewhat in the dark about whether they've been put on a blacklist.

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[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 46 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)
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[–] mspencer712@programming.dev 35 points 5 days ago

Wait… I just had an idea.

Make a tarpit out of subtly-reprocessed copies of classified material from Wikileaks. (And don’t host it in the US.)

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 13 points 4 days ago

--recurse-depth=3 --max-hits=256

[–] hedhoncho@lemm.ee 32 points 5 days ago (13 children)

Why are the photos all ugly biological things

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[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 9 points 4 days ago (2 children)

OK but why is there a vagina in a petri dish

[–] underline960@sh.itjust.works 20 points 4 days ago

I was going to say something snarky and stupid, like "all traps are vagina-shaped," but then I thought about venus fly traps and bear traps and now I'm worried I've stumbled onto something I'm not supposed to know.

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[–] Iambus@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago

Typical bluesky post

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