this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2025

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126

Canada Considers Snubbing US F-35 For Sweden’s Gripen Fighter Jets (www.newsweek.com)

submitted 1 month ago by FenrirIII@lemmy.world to c/canada@lemmy.ca

17 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://reddthat.com/post/54545288

all 18 comments

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[–] WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org 25 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Why wouldn't you cut America off? detox, cut ties. Prepare nukes etc...

[+] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub -7 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Because they aren't just going out and buying a new car.

A military changing aircraft means rewriting pilot and maintenance personnel training programs, then retraining everyone, changing logistics chains for a completely different set of spare parts, rewriting tactical plans to match the new aircraft's capabilities & limitations, changing ordnance availability based on what the new platform can carry... changing the aircraft means thousands of follow-on decisions and costs for all of the support structure and military operations built around the aircraft.

Can Sweden supply the number of aircraft that Canada needs? How many, and over how many years? what about spare parts - can Canada manufacture some within its borders, or purchase them from third-party suppliers, or will it be completely dependent on Sweden to supply them? what guarantees can be given about access to those parts? How quickly can pilots be retrained? Can the same type of missiles be mounted on the Gripen, or will the Canadian military have to select different weapons systems, purchase them, and retrain personnel to use and handle them? are the communication, radar and electronic warfare capabilities on these aircraft comparable? can the Gripen perform all of the same mission types as the F-35, or will other aircraft have to provide capabilities and either support, participate in or take over certain mission types? will it fit in current Canadian hangars, or will new facilities have to be built? can it take off and land on the same airstrips as the F-35, or will some have to be modified, or will it simply not be deployable from all of the same locations?

Finally, is the time, effort, internal chaos, and financial cost of changing aircraft worth it? It will take more than 3 years to accomplish these changes. Is waiting for the US administration to change a lower risk/lower cost option?

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 26 points 1 month ago

They will be built in Canada. Canada already builds large numbers of aircraft for Sweden.

[–] WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Don't buy from the enemy and fund them.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

A military changing aircraft means rewriting pilot and maintenance personnel training programs

All the reason to stop considering F35 alternatives, and cancel F35 immidiately. Sell any to KSA or North Korea for all I care.

The only military mission Canada will ever NEED to do in near future is defense/attack against US forces. That can't be done with F35s that need Lockheed Martin permission for avionic systems. Pretending our military's only mission will remain to hammer "rules based world order" nails is what needs to stop immediately.

The other issue is what a shit plane the F35 is. If ever there is a legitimate reason to amplify US dictate again, it can be done with other planes than F35. The point that this was always a colonial tribute paying for a boondoggle was always unacceptable. Same people can learn to fly and maintain other fighters.

[–] matlag@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The more likely disastrous scenario is Russia repeatedly "tests" Canada's borders, and Trump or an equally idiot successor decides this is an opportunity to re-negociate trade agreements while the mission planning server in the US suffers from an inexplicable temporary outage.

As for training, Ukraine proves every day a jet's pilots, mechs, etc. can definitely be re-trained and operate in a high intensity war.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The more likely disastrous scenario is Russia repeatedly “tests” Canada’s borders

Will absolutely never happen. Russia has no reason to ever exploit resources in Canadian waters/territory without our permission. There is an international treaty against exploitation of any arctic resources even in own waters, but US will ignore and so no one will say shit about any of it, when exploiting own territory.

[–] HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Pretty sure they already have been

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

So ridiculously absurd. There are absurd propaganda headlines that get published fairly often, but even those articles are complete nothing burgers with actual accusations. Yes, Russia and Chinese ships are in Arctic. That doesn't mean they are anywhere close to Canadian waters. For Russia to "have already been" to Canadian territory to exploit resources, they would need a reason to travel that far and return. Even fishing which doesn't require any investment once they are here, wouldn't make sense as long as Russian waters have fish. The US is the one that would steal our fish. A mine or oil well is gigantic investment that needs permission/alliance to invest in, because of the high risk of confiscation.

[–] matlag@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago

This year, the next development phase (Block4) promised capabilities were trimmed down and new delays were announced. Meanwhile, the last refresh had so much troubles that Lockheed delivered non-combat capable jets for some time (are they meeting all their promises even now??).

So I don't know if the Gripen is as capable as what the F35 is supposed to be for Canada's needs, but at least it's an existing product, tested in real combat, from a reliable maker.

Saab already offered to have them assembled in Canada, and that production site would also build Ukraine's order.

The F35 is a work in progress and a lot of its awesomeness exists on Powerpoint only. And even if it gets there one day, no one can tell how long you'll wait, how much it will cost, and not even if it will be relevant by the time, as its furtivity advantage, for example, could be nullified by new radars capabilities.

So on one hand, an expensive solution, that's true, but you know what you get. On the other, a complete unknown on costs, delays and gap between promised and actual capabilities.

More food for thoughts: when Greece ordered some F35 in addition to its Rafale and F16 fleet, no one in the US admin thought a mixed fleet was too expensive for a country like Greece.

So I will let Canada's deciders take their time on that one...

[–] Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The real headline:

Trump proves again to Canadians that Americans are unreliable partners, in trade, like in defense, costing US arms makers hundreds of billions. Can American ever be trusted again? Can America ever recover?

Trump taught the world they can't be trusted. Canada isn't snubbing the F35. Americans just lost their fucking minds and no one wants to do business with them.

[–] CircaV@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

F35s are useless in patrolling the Arctic, Gripens much better. No way Canada should be buying these from the US which is actively trying to annex it.

[–] yannic@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I am not an expert, but I thought the problem with the F-35's patrolling the Arctic was that they're single engine. Is there something else I'm missing?

[–] Sculptor9157@sh.itjust.works -3 points 1 month ago

The smart move is to wait for annexation and then get them for free.

[–] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 month ago

Canada should propose buying F35s exclusively with wealth taxes. We’d see how quickly the op-eds would change their tunes.

[–] orioler25@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

Y'know what would really stick it to them 'Mericans? Expansion of social welfare programs that alleviate community dependency on US corporations. Imagine how mad they'd be when housing and post-secondary education is fully socialized and funded. That'd be some epic trolling, like, if we ensured that Canadians have the funds and material security to support internal investment and economic growth without forced use of American-owned services or products. Ooooh they'd be like: >:(

Jets though, sure, military sovereignty is super important when they don't even have to invade your space to secure their interests.

[–] sixpaque@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

What I don't understand is: why are we changing one foreign manufacturer to be **** "dependent on another?" They could also pull out of Canada anytime they get a snit on, like the Americans. What is the advantage, other than getting even with trump? That's my question?????